Chapter 6 and 7

A breif summary of what we talked about:

We went through chapters 6 and 7. We started talking about forgiveness. Someone started us off by asking what happens if someone doesn't forgive themselves? We ended up concluding that if you don't understand that God's forgiveness surpasses all, it means you don't really understand that God's forgiven you. Furthermore, it could mean that you value your own forgiveness more than God's forgiveness.

We went through more about forgiveness, mainly tangenting what John Piper wrote in each of the sections, why we forgive, how forgiveness brings us closer to God and how we make others glad through our forgiveness. (pretty much all of what he talked about in that chapter).

Chapter 7 was more intense. We started off by talking about how we should live out our lives so that other people would notice the hope that we have in Jesus Christ. We talked also about not just doing things to let other people know that we are Christian (a la Matthew 6), but we should just live it out. We ended up just talking about materialism in the world, how our culture values money because it's the only thing they can turn to. We also talked about giving and talked about how it's more the attitude in our giving that makes it important, not the amount. As students, we may need more money to support ourselves, but if we don't offer to God what is his, and save up just because we want to get more stuff, then we should look at our attitude of giving.

Then we had to hurry because it was already 6:30. We talked about how cool the war-time attitude was and how it gives a different view of the world today. We lightly touched on each of the stories that Piper mentioned, just about saving every little bit, about the diseases being a tool of Satan, about television and internet being a waste of time, about what "cool" means and how values of our culture are so wrong.

Feel free to add anything I've missed!

Chapter 4 - On pain and suffering

What does it mean to suffer? First we noted that the underlying origin of pain, suffering, and death is the fall and sin of man. We saw the distinction between suffering and pain -- in suffering there is the concept of a longer time period, and for specific reasons. At times, suffering results in decisions made by ourselves (both wise and unwise -- an example of the latter is choosing to sin, and thus suffering the consequences of it). Other times suffering comes upon us that we cannot escape. Yet, in God's infinite wisdom, He has made it possible for even suffering to be a "great mercy" -- in the sense that through it, we have the opportunity to see and experience more of the glory of God.

What kind of "suffering for Christ" do we face today? We noticed that by and large in N.A. we will not be subject to the physical persecution that faced believers in other times or are facing believers in other parts of the world today. However, persecution in the social and emotional senses are very real. In fact, it would be quite abnormal for us as Christians to be living in the world and be comfortably pain-free... if we are, we might ask whether we have become so "conformed to the world"! For believers in early church times, the realities of experiencing God's love and suffering for Christ were synonymous. Yet, in our culture, the deceitfulness of the "prosperity gospel" may well have influenced the thinking of many who claim to follow Christ. (Of course, there is nothing wrong with being materially blessed. God may lay certain convictions on our hearts as to how to disperse these resources, and we must act out of a right heart's attitude.)

On a more personal aspect of suffering, what does Paul mean when he writes, "I die every day"? We discussed how this refers to the "dying to self" -- in all things, not I, but Christ. The whole of our "old man" and its nature -- self-will, self-centredness, pride, confidence, and so on -- is being put to death, if only we would submit ourselves to the transforming work of the Holy Spirit. This too, is a road of suffering as we learn to yield our own wants and desires to Christ, but the end is far more glorious!